Robert:
Hello and welcome to I'm a Serious Book Person, the podcast where we gently interrogate people who claim to be just that. I'm your host Robert Watkins and in every episode I sit down with an author, a reader or just a fellow book obsessive. Or maybe they're all three at once. To dive into their favourite stories, the books that changed them and why we all still cling to the glorious dusty power of paper and ink. So grab your favourite drink and your current read because this is the place for those who truly love books. Let's get to it.
Robert:
Is your TBR pile becoming a serious health and safety hazard? Do you spend far too much time on Goodreads, trawling through the reviews to validate your opinions? Did you stay up too late last night, just so you could finish the good bit at the end of Chapter 8? If you answered ‘yes’ to any of these questions, you just might be a serious book person. Today we're joined by acclaimed and best-selling author of books for children and books for adults, Jaclyn Moriarty. Her newest book for adults, Time Travel for Beginners, will be in all good bookstores in August. Welcome, Jaclyn. I can't wait to find out what you love most about stories.
Jaclyn:
Thank you so much. That was a great introduction. I love the introduction.
Robert:
We are so excited about Time Travel for Beginners, and I think one of the things that really comes through in that novel is like an absolute love for storytelling. Umm… and I don't want to really spend too much time talking about what that novel is about, because we'll do that many, many times as we go towards August. Instead, I just really want to dig deep on what it is you love about stories today. So my first question for you, Jaclyn, are you a serious book person?
Jaclyn:
A serious book person. I suppose you could say I'm a serious book person in that I find that I only read books from the literary canon and books that have, or books that have won or been nominated for the biggest literary... No, that's not true.
Robert:
[Laughs] You really had me there for a second.
Jaclyn:
I thought I could keep going for a while. I was going to say, you only put healthy food in your body, so why would you not only put healthy... I had a whole thing that I was going to do that I had to stop because I couldn't stand the panic in your eyes. I read obsessively, like I'm sure you do. Do you read obsessively?
Robert;
Yeah, it's literally every waking hour, I think sometimes.
Jaclyn:
Right, I find that... Well, my sister always says, you know, there are people who say I don't have... A lot of people I know say I don't have time to read and my sister always says that's like saying I don't have time to breathe because, and I agree with that, I just get a panicky feeling if I don't have a book. And I was house-minding for friends not long ago and I had just finished a book just as I arrived there and I thought, I'll just read one of their books, I'll see what they've got on their bookshelves… and they didn't have a single book in the house. And that's all right, not everybody is a reader, I didn't judge them for that. But actually it was night time, it was late and there was a thunderstorm outside and I seriously considered going out into the rain and lightning and wind and walking 20 minutes to this dark area where I remember seeing a neighbourhood community book library because I was in just horror at not having something to read. So I guess that I didn't in the end because I thought it's not fair to my child if I never come back. You have to have priorities at some point. And the only thing that I could find in the place was they had a former border who had left behind their personal journal and again I seriously considered reading that, I didn't read it, but I just thought I need some storytelling to be before my eyes to go to bed with. So that's the...
Robert:
That's how seriously you take it. When you walk into other people's homes then is it the first thing you look for?
Jaclyn:
I definitely am drawn to people who have books around. I notice more and more people don't have shelves or books in their houses. And I think a lot of people are reading on e-readers and things like that, so that's understandable. But I did go to a party of someone recently and I already liked her but I fell more deeply in love with her seeing all the... She just had shelves and shelves of books around the front room and I thought, I'm not seeing that so much anymore. I don't know if people are hiding them or... Or they have fewer books or they're just getting better at giving their books away because of the whole decluttering.
Robert:
I've moved house quite a few times in the last few years. And every time I move the biggest stress is thinking about which books you keep and which books you give away.
Jaclyn:
Exactly. Yeah, I have... Sorry, go on.
Robert:
Well, it's true, like when you're moving and you're thinking about how much you have to move, then you have to think to yourself, how seriously do I take this collection? Like which of these books mean enough to me that I would pack them in a box and then lift them up and move them? Which I think kind of naturally moves into my next question for you. It's like, what is that book that got you into stories? Is there a... one book? I mean, I guess it's hard to say that if you're a big lover of books, but there must be one.
Jaclyn:
It's a good question and I like it when people have a really specific answer. And I'm a very indecisive person, so I'm not good at very specific selecting one thing. But I can think of, if you don't mind me saying three or four books, that in combination probably had that effect. I think that... Well, I know that my parents used to read to me from when I was little. So when people say, What's the book that made you first love storytelling? I always think, I don't remember not loving storytelling. I remember being in year one, first grade, and the moment where I discovered that you could put these words together and make a story. If you wanted to, you didn't just have to do what the teacher said. And I remember that extraordinary, that kind of divine moment of, I can make a story out of these words that we've been learning about. And so that must be from the stories that my parents had been reading. And my dad always used to say that he never read us picture books. He made up stories. He just threw them away and made up his own stories. So I have no memory of it, but I do remember just loving stories. But then after that, I remember the book that probably made me fall in love with the idea of creativity and imagination was the Folk of the Faraway Tree by Enid Blyton. And then after that reading, in just week after week, I kept rereading the Roald Dahl book, The Magic Finger. I don't know if you know that one. And that made me realise that stories can be immediate and present and have a strong narrative voice. I mean, I wasn't thinking as a six-year-old strong narrative voice, but this person is alive and she's telling me the story straight to me. And also that I felt like I was inside the story in a sense because this was a little girl who felt rage inside her. And I was a very good, quiet little girl with this secret, sometimes fury, about boys who were mean to me or teachers who were cranky with me and things like that. But you know, this rage that I thought was shameful and terrible in my big, big secret. And then it was right there because the little girl in the book has rage and then her finger becomes powerful and does magic tricks. And then the Joan Aiken Necklace of Raindrops.
Robert:
Oh, I don't know that one.
Jaclyn:
It's the book that made me fall in love with beautiful writing. I don't know if you do know Joan Aiken. Did you used to read her? She's one of my favourite children's writers. And most of her books are adventure stories, but occasionally she writes just exquisite, powerful, emotionally moving stories. And this is a collection of short stories that made me cry. And that might be the first time I really felt deeply moved, but also the exquisite writing. And then, sorry, one other was, do you know, E. Nesbit, who wrote The Railway Children and Five Children and It? I loved her. And there's one called The Phoenix and the Carpet, which I think put together a lot of those things. The imagination and the immediacy and the beautiful writing and the humour too. Roald Dahl's humour, I had also been moved by. So that combination. And then I was just deeply, deeply in love.
Robert:
It's so funny. As soon as you said The Magic Faraway Tree, I could picture Moonface. I was just like immediately in my head because I remember reading those as a child and being obsessed with the characters in The Magic Faraway Tree. But I was also thinking, it was so interesting to me that you mentioned both Enid Blyton and then Roald Dahl. Because I always thought that those books were really populated with like extreme descriptions of food. [...] I don't know why, but I think about your writing too. And I think that particularly in this new novel Time Travel for Beginners, there's lots of descriptions of food in there. So I wonder if that's a thing that you're really drawn to in storytelling.
Jaclyn:
Yeah, I was trying to avoid saying, but also the food. I agree those stories and the food descriptions and that magical land at the top of the tree. I wonder if I was hungry a lot. I don't think I was hungry a lot. I just love sweet treats. And the idea of being able to imagine them into being. And they seem, yeah. So I tried not to overdo the sweet treats in the time travel book. Hopefully I didn't, but just that when things are going very badly and you come together as a group with close friends and there's coffee and cake, that seems like the dream to me.
Robert:
Oh, I totally agree. And I think with The Magic Faraway Tree, the food was so fantastical always. And then I always, I just wanted to be able to go up there and have that picnic that they were having basically and eat whatever crazy cake it was that they were describing at that particular point in time. And I think you're right. That is something that kind of, if you can imagine it. And it's slightly beyond what you've personally experienced that maybe is the magic of storytelling is like taking you somewhere that you've never been before.
Jaclyn:
That's a really good point. Yes, definitely. And it sounds like we had a similar experience reading The Magic Faraway Tree. And also, I don't know if you read books. A lot of the books that were around were books from England or from America. And so we had a different experience in Australia reading them than the audience that they might have been written for. And even the food that to them was familiar had that magical sense to us. So root beer, that's a huge disappointment in my life. Have you ever tried to?
Robert:
Yeah, it's not as exciting as it sounds.
Jaclyn:
It's not as good as it sounds. Yeah, exactly.
Robert:
They drank a lot of tea obviously too because they were English books. So I remember tea being such a big thing. That was again, it was probably kind of fantastic tea in the magic far away tree. It wasn't like the tea that we imagined. It's not just some English Breakfast. It's some kind of like stardust tea or something. I can't actually remember.
Jaclyn:
Exactly. Yeah, no, but it's a really good point that it feels possible, but just beyond the range of possibility. And that is why it's a big part of why it's not the only reason, but that possibility is very important and powerful in stories. Because we need to be able to think beyond the present to solve problems.
Robert:
Yeah, and there's lots of reasons why people like to read. And one of them is, I think, it's not really just escapism. It's more kind of a world beyond what we have opens up all opportunity. You know, like it's that kind of aspirational almost like experience.
Jaclyn:
Exactly, yeah.
Robert:
My next question for you, I think is a really interesting one. And most people are drawing links back to their family. And so I think it's really interesting that you say that your dad used to read to you or tell you stories. The next question is, who is the person that got you into storytelling?
Jaclyn:
Well, again, it was probably my dad or he used to like the credit to take the credit for it. And I think he deserves the credit for it. The story we always, I come from a family of six children and two of my sisters are also authors, Liane and Nicola, and we all like telling stories and writing stories when we were little. So our dad, instead of giving us pocket money, used to commission us to write stories. So you got a dollar fifty if you filled up an exercise book with a story, including illustrations. And then he would set up a toy game of roulette that he had and win all the money back from us.
But the impact that he had that that had was that it made us think of writing as something potentially serious and money making. And that he took it seriously. He never did this as if he was playing a game with us or it never felt, it was fun, but it never felt light-hearted. It felt like we had to put the work in and then we would be rewarded. And he was one of those dads who didn't laugh at a joke if it wasn't funny. So he didn't tell you he liked the story if he didn't like the story. But it was also I think the fact that he was it wasn't just that that he used to do. It was the fact that he his own job was doing something that he had always dreamed of and that he absolutely loved. Because when he was a little boy from when he was a little boy, he dreamed of flying planes, he'd been enamoured by aeroplanes and the extraordinary, you know, the impossible extraordinary. And then he somehow from being coming from a pretty poor background and not doing very well in school and repeating things over and over again to try and make it happen. Somehow managed to get himself flying lessons eventually and he became a surveyor and then he became an aerial surveyor. And he never stopped loving being in the sky. And so he learned to fly planes and helicopters.
And so that joy that he with which he talked about his job and the fact that he would say whatever we were doing, figure out what you and it's like that cliche of do what you love and the money will follow. He would he would say do what you love and figure out how to make money from it in a way that you love. And so that's what he was doing at the beginning with that commissioning us to write stories. And then so that was always in the back of my mind because I wanted to be a writer, but then you grow up a bit and realise nobody becomes a writer. This is not practical or possible. So I was I did law. I did study English, but also law and started to become a lawyer. And my dad was always a bit neutral about that and kept saying, but what about your writing, which is so weird because most parents would say, yes, follow this sensible path where you'll be secure and safe. And it was that him saying that that reminded me I should keep trying. And then I'm so glad I did because I really love writing and I can't believe how lucky I am to be doing this.
Robert:
I want to dig down into this idea of the game slash job of having your dad commission you and Liane and Nicola and assume your other siblings maybe as well to write stories. Or was it just the three of you specifically?
Jaclyn:
It wasn't even I always say three.. us, but it was more Liane and me who he was commissioning us to the next two sisters and the brother had absolutely no interest in writing stories. So they didn't do that. And they now and they've never been interested in that. And now they those two sisters are always saying if one more person asks me when I'm going to write a book. So they yeah, they were not interested in it all. And Nicola was the youngest and she had so many different pursuits. She was an artist and actor and a singer and a writer. So it was almost like she didn't need to have the commission. She was just that level of creativity.
Robert:
Just art from every pore.
Jaclyn:
Exactly. Yes.
Robert:
But was it a competition?
Jaclyn:
That's a great question. And no, it was not a competition. Probably I don't know if it would have been. I mean, dad definitely didn't set it up as if it was competitive. It was usually different time. He never said and whoever writes the best story wins or anything like that. It was often at different time that we would come up with an idea and say, Dad, can I write this story for you? And he would ask for a synopsis and I and then say, OK, and you know, I will purchase that story if you complete it.
So it was business transaction. But also so he didn't set it up as if it was competitive. But also Liane is two years older than me and I was always from childhood in awe of her in that little sister way. And so it didn't even occur to me to be competing with her because she's...
Robert:
She was always going to win.
Jaclyn:
Yeah, exactly. She's the goddess and the queen and my next sister down who's only two years younger than me. I always noticed why isn't she treating me like a goddess and a queen? She was competitive with me and I would have waited. I'm older than you. This is not how it works. But yeah, no, Katie has that strong personality and yeah, she's also wonderful too. I'm very lucky that I have wonderful sisters that and they're all different in their own way. And it wouldn't occur to me to compete with any of them because we're all individual people. And you also can't compete with storytelling and writing because the best storytelling comes from who you are. And I cannot be her and she cannot be me. So there's no competition between us.
Robert:
You're basically a modern day Bronte sisters.
Jaclyn:
Oh, I love it when people say that. [Laughs]
Robert:
Who's Anne who's Emily and who's Charlotte?
Jaclyn:
Yeah, I know we don't really want it. I think we can all be Charlotte and Emily. None of us wants to be Anne. Sorry, Anne. She's just not as... I love Anne, but she's not as...
Robert:
I will just say more people need to read Agnes Gray and Tenant of Wildfell Hall and give Anne her credit.
Jaclyn
That's a good point. Yeah, I agree. [Laughs]
Robert:
Wuthering Heights is so dark.
Jaclyn:
Yes, exactly.
Robert:
I mean, not that the others aren't as well, but let's... we can do some Tenant of Wildfell Hall.
Jaclyn:
I absolutely agree. But I don't think it would be right to call any of us Anne at this moment and say we need more recognition. We should be happy with what we have. It's a good question though. I wonder which one's which. I think I want to be Emily because she's a bit more dramatic and...
Robert:
So dramatic. So dramatic and possibly more mysterious than the other two in a way.
Jaclyn:
Exactly, yes. That's the word I was looking for. Thank you. That's the mystique that I want.
Robert:
My final question for you for today is, is there a place that you go or that you think of or that you love to be in when you're immersing yourself in storytelling? And that might be when you're writing or it might be when you're reading.
Jaclyn:
Ahh… You probably can guess the answer to that question.
Robert:
I think I can because I think it's the Coco Chocolate.
Jaclyn:
Yes, well done! You even remember the name because you have very kindly come and met me there. But it's a chocolate shop in Kirribilli and it's a 15 minute walk from where I live. And it's just a tiny little room with a chandelier made of tea cups and the walls are lined with shelves of chocolates. And there's one big table in the middle of the room covered in chocolates. And there's two tables and chairs outside. It just... And it's hidden around a corner. I don't know if you remember that. It's not on the main street. So that means... Because there are only two tables and because it's around this corner, it means it's quiet but also there are two cafes next door. So I can... I feel like I'm part of the world but also that I'm in a magical other world because I'm in the chocolate shop. And I can if I want to listen into occasional conversations too because I like eavesdropping. But also I don't have to feel overwhelmed and also it gives me justification to keep buying chocolate because I need to pay my rent to be there sitting at the table.
Robert:
It's funny because I think Coco Chocolate feels like it could easily be straight out of a Blyton novel because of the kind of, you know, smallness but also uniqueness of it. And I will say that obviously their range of hot chocolate is crazy and maybe slightly fantastical. And I will always slightly regret having had the chilli chocolate there once because I thought it was slightly too spicy for me.
Jaclyn:
Oh no, I'm sorry. That's depressing. [Laughs]
Robert:
Oh no, I really... I will say I really enjoyed that. I think I had lavender on a different time and I really enjoyed that.
Jaclyn:
Okay.
Robert:
But I remember the chilli chocolate I had on my hot day and that was not a smart option.
Jaclyn:
I'm sorry. Okay.
Robert:
In winter, maybe.
Jaclyn:
No, I'm glad. I appreciate your honesty.
Robert:
Winter is when you need to have the chilli chocolate.
Jaclyn:
You do need to have the chilli chocolate in winter. But the owner, I also like the fact that the owner is... She is an Australian who moved to Scotland and she studied chocolate making in Paris and she designed all the packaging herself and also tries to do it as ecologically and tries to source chocolate from the best places in the world and the most environmentally sound. And there's all kinds of great things about it. But yes, avoid the chilli hot chocolate on a hot day.
Robert:
On a hot day. We might even put the link to Coco Chocolate in our show notes today just so people can go and have a look. Not sponsored, maybe we should be. But we'll put it in the notes so everybody can go and have a look at it. Well that's where our podcast episode ends today, Jaclyn. I'm so pleased to have spent this time talking with you.
Jaclyn:
It's been lovely talking with you. Thank you so much, Robert.
Robert:
Jaclyn, it's been an utter delight spending the time today getting to know more about what excites you about books and stories. Thank you so much for agreeing to be interviewed on our little podcast. Jaclyn's newest novel for adults, Time Travel for Beginners is simply the most enjoyable novel you'll read this year. In terms of funny and heartbreaking and always relatable, I urge you to get your hands on it by any means possible. If you loved Midnight Library by Matt Haig, Life After Life by Kate Atkinson or even Where'd You Go, Bernadette by Maria Semple, I promise you will fall in love with this book. We have links to Jaclyn’s books in print, e-book and audio in our show notes for today's episode. Thanks Jaclyn.
Jaclyn:
Thank you so much.
Music Interlude
Robert:
If you enjoyed this conversation, please remember to follow I'm a Serious Book Person wherever you get your podcasts. A quick follow really helps us reach many more book lovers. Also, you can keep up with all the incredible titles and authors that we discussed by following Ultimo Press on all our social media channels. Finally, I would like to acknowledge that this podcast is recorded on the lands of the Gadigal people of the Eora Nation, and I pay our deepest respects to their Elders past and present. I'm a Serious Book Person is hosted by me, Robert Watkins, and is produced by Andrea Johnson and Murray Nance. Until next time, keep reading.
